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Talk:Michigan
Removing Madonna It's likely we aren't going to keep the Madonna article. See the Talk:Britney Spears. TR (talk) 17:31, July 12, 2015 (UTC) Wilberforce Is it possible that the NAU in The Two Georges is named after British politician and philanthropist William Wiberforce? -- 22:15, January 4, 2016 (UTC)Jacob Chesley the Alternate Historian :I suppose so. Turtle Fan (talk) 23:19, January 4, 2016 (UTC) ::He seems more likely than his offspring. ::Since I'm sure this is the question Jacob is leading up to: Should we create an article for William Wilberforce? We do have Thomas Cranmer and Benjamin Disraeli based solely on the provinces named after them. TR (talk) 00:57, January 5, 2016 (UTC) :::By that standard, we should. Do we want to keep that standard, now that it's been exposed? I don't know. We deleted Jonathan's article on David Farragut based solely on the fact that he had a ship named after him. While a province is arguably a bigger deal than a ship (we're not Lemurians, after all), I'm nonetheless inclined to apply the same principle here. (Which of course also means Thomas Cranmer and Benjamin Disraeli have to go; and I believe the former will send the Archbishops of Canterbury category below its critical mass.) Turtle Fan (talk) 04:41, January 5, 2016 (UTC) ::::I'd argue that the presence of the provinces and articles about the men for whom they are named further give us some insight into how the world of T2G works. My quick Googling found a place in Quebec named for Disraeli, but I can't seem to find any city or town in North America, let alone the U.S., named for Cranmer (or Wilberforce for that matter). In the T2G-verse, they NAU made a point of naming provinces for those three men. Admittedly, I can't recall any specific in-text reference to any of them, so that's a strike against keeping them. :::::With respect to the names, I believe there never was any references to them in the story. The only source is the map in the frontispiece. ML4E (talk) 20:56, January 5, 2016 (UTC) ::::Conversely, there have been several ships named USS Farragut, so that the USA had one in 191 isn't terribly remarkable, and it seems unnecessary to create an article to draw attention to this. TR (talk) 05:00, January 5, 2016 (UTC) ::It seems like the NAU province namesake articles have established a precedent and it would be awkward to delete them. There is also an article for King William II of England based on a naval fortress named after him in American Front.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 21:05, January 10, 2016 (UTC) :::We do revisit precedents from time to time, so that holds no water. Even if we keep the provinces, I think the fort one needs to go. Turtle Fan (talk) 00:50, January 11, 2016 (UTC) ::::I could go either way on keeping William II of England. The fact that there is a British fort in the Sandwich Islands named for an English king in 1914 does gave a little insight into Tl-191. One the other hand, it's a fairly tenuous link since it goes with William's nickname rather than "Fort William II", and as I argued at Talk:Fort William Rufus, HT's use of the name appears to be an elaborate pun on the real Fort Shafter. TR (talk) 02:51, January 11, 2016 (UTC) ::::I'm not sure what insight it gives in context; if you're dense enough to read that far into the book without noticing that the US and UK are sworn enemies and that the map of their respective territories is very different from OTL, I can't imagine that the name of the fort is going to clarify anything for you. Maybe if someone were to pull the book off the shelf and allow it to fall open at random without first reading the dust jacket flap. :::::The article in question is at this little project here, where users may read articles about books they have not read, or use the wiki as a set of annotations for the works they have read. It is in that context where insights may be of use. TR (talk) 16:20, January 11, 2016 (UTC) ::::::I'm sorry if I've offended you, that was not my intention. Still, I don't see such little details adding to anyone's understanding in a meaningful way. Turtle Fan (talk) 00:34, January 12, 2016 (UTC) ::::::I wasn't offended, and if I seemed so, I sincerely apologize to you. You have nothing to apologize for. TR (talk) 00:53, January 12, 2016 (UTC) ::::At any rate, that tenuous connection is bugging me. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:29, January 11, 2016 (UTC) :::::Despite the above, I don't disagree. It's really tenuous, and I think the connection could be handled by a line in the Fort William Rufus article without a William II page. TR (talk) 16:20, January 11, 2016 (UTC) ::::::I hate to delete a king, but in this case I do believe it's best. Turtle Fan (talk) 00:34, January 12, 2016 (UTC) :::::::Given our track record, if we do delete it, we virtually guarantee that HT will write a story about William II before the year's end. That's actually a good reason to delete, come to think of it. TR (talk) 00:53, January 12, 2016 (UTC) :::::::It might be best to delete the file but make a just in case copy for down the line if it needs reinstating.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 03:35, January 12, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::Restoring a deletion is quite easy, so we don't need to save anything. TR (talk) 03:43, January 12, 2016 (UTC) Further to this discussion, we have the comment that the NAU province of Miami is named after the native Americans of the area. It didn't justify the creation of a "Miami Tribes" article. A counter-precedences if you will. Incidentally, the source of the name is speculative since its not mentioned in the book but I think reasonable enough to stand. ML4E (talk) 19:02, January 16, 2016 (UTC) Huron Peninsula "... informally known as the Huron Peninsula ..." I spent a bit of time last night dipping into T2G. I did read in some detail the section where Bushell and Stanley travel from QCI to The Six Nations including the part where the "Huron Peninsula" is mentioned. In context, the story describes the train traveling from Astoria to Toledo, Ohio across the base of the Huron Peninsula. Looking at a map, this is a line from the southernmost part of Lake Michigan to the west most part of Lake Erie. The land above is a peninsula, between Michigan and Erie+Huron. Now in OTL there is nothing called the Huron Peninsula but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is formed from the Huron Mountains so it seems to me that the Huron Peninsula is a reference to a geographic formation rather than an informal name for Wilberforce. This is similar to their crossing the Rockies, which was not an informal name for either province. And in OTL we have the Niagara Peninsula which refers to the spur of land between Lakes Ontario and Erie but is not an informal name for the Province of Ontario. ML4E (talk) 18:16, February 12, 2016 (UTC) :It's not? Shit, no wonder the package I sent to "Toronto, Niagara Peninsula" got returned. Turtle Fan (talk) 23:31, February 12, 2016 (UTC) Inconsistency #3 Jonathan has it stating: "... passes through Tippecanoe (Indiana) and Miami (Ohio), before "cutting across the neck of the Huron Peninsula". That would be an inconsistency except the novel doesn't say that. Instead it says that the train rolled through Tippecanoe and Miami on its way to Doshoweh. A few paragraphs later, it says "After cutting across the neck of the Huron Peninsula, they reached Toledo ..." The neck would be the line from the southern tip of Lake Michigan to the western tip of Lake Erie which is the boundary between Tippecanoe-Miami and Wilberforce. (See the map for the Great Lakes). I see no inconsistency here and think this should be removed. ML4E (talk) 18:30, May 6, 2016 (UTC) < bump > Anything to say to support retaining this inconsistency Jonathan? If not I will delete it. ML4E (talk) 17:01, May 7, 2016 (UTC) :If the text does not say what Jonathan says, then yes, it should be removed. TR (talk) 17:17, May 7, 2016 (UTC) ::I stand by my original opinion. TR (talk) 17:56, May 28, 2016 (UTC) ::It has been removed. ML4E (talk) 20:19, May 29, 2016 (UTC)